Rudder 'play' question

[AynB]

Just pulled Halona out and dutifully checked everything below the waterline.
I did some pulling and tugging on the rudder and found a small bit of play.
How much is too much play? When do I seek professional help ( no gallery comments here )?

On a side note, we had a brisk day recently with full sails up and wind at 20 knots, I noticed that there were moments where the rudder felt jammed or locked, not unlike the feeling you have when the autopilot is on and you try to turn the wheel. It was a bit disconcerting, but since it was momentary, I just filed it away.
Now that I have found a bit of play...

[Richard Ad]

Hello AynB: I just pulled my boat and put it on the hard for the winter and noticed play in the rudder. About 1/4" movement at the hull. The lower bearing seems to have some rotational movement too and appears to have screw holes in the flange of the bearing. One of the service companies at my boatyard is going to inspect it for me. If the bearings need replacing Catalina Direct sells it for $450.00* for the entire bearing assembly. To replace the bearing the boat needs to be lifted high enough to drop the rudder (my boatyard would be really upset if I dug a hole under my rudder to drop it). Here's the link to Catalina Direct. There's a drawing at the bottom... http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm ... ct_ID=2385

AynB, your posting was in September 2009; what did you do about your rudder movement? My C-350 is a 2005.

*Per Catalina Direct: "We have had numerous requests for individual replacement parts for this rudder bearing assembly. Unfortunately, these parts are all molded at the same time in a "single shot" mold. One mold cycle produces one of each part. There is no way to mold just one of the parts."

[Richard Ad]

RE: my Dec 04, 2011 posting. The bottom bearing ring (ring between the rudder and hull) has screw holes and mine didn't have screws in it and is loose. From what I understand, Catalina Yachts uses an adhesive like 3M-5200 to hold this ring in place and does not always install the screws. Therefore, I believe my adhesive failed.

I had a marine service at my boatyard take a look at my rudder bearing. To drop the rudder and get to the bearing ring so the surfaces of the ring and to upper bearing can be cleaned and adhesive applied it would take approx 8 hours or approx $1K for the job. They said, if it were their boat that they'd leave it like it is; I'll get 20+ plus years out of that bearing without applying adhesive to it.

Since the boat is out of the water for the winter I'm thinking of repairing it myself. HAS ANYONE DROPPED THEIR RUDDER? AND HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT? I think there's enough room for the rudder to drop far enough to get to the ring & bearing surfaces.

Richard Ad (posted Dec 17, 2011)

[djones]

We dropped the rudder on ours early on during the early repairs of our hull #13. It was relatively easy. Hardest part for us was digging the hole!

Remove steering cables from the round steering quadrant disc.
Remove bolts holding the two disc halves together, and separate them from the rudder post.
Remove the autopilot arm from the rudder post.

Back up in the cockpit, remove the access plate as if you were going to use the emergency rudder. See that horizontal bolt going across the top of the rudder post? That bolt passes through a round metal ring at the top of the post. Have someone lift the rudder slightly from the bottom of the boat to take the weight off of that ring, slide that bolt out, and remove the ring. The rudder will now fall out of the bottom of the boat. Depending on how tight the rudder post is, you may have to "work it" just a bit.

Reverse the order to replace. Good Luck.

Don Jones #13, "Onatop"
Oak Island/Southport, NC

[Richard Ad]

Thank you djones. FYI.......... RECEIVED SOME GREAT INFO FROM CATALINA YACHTS: Here's how to drop the rudder:
There are Typically three (two for sure) things that hold the rudder in place or keep it from dropping.
1. The top cross bolt shown in drawing that goe thru the shaft just a few inches down from the top accessible from the cockpit sterring well in floor.
2. The Edson two piece radial wheel that has 4 bolts that clamps it on to the rudder as well as one bolt that goes thru the center of the unit and thru the shaft. (look for about 5 there total until you can hold both pieces of the radial wheel in your hands like a split pizza
(After loosening the steering cables of course)
3. An optional autopliot tiller arm will also have a bolt that goes thru the shaft center.
Once these three are all removed, if you ease off your bottle jack (or boards) the rudder will come down. (rudder wieghs about 150#).

I have a drawing ("Lower Rudder Bearing Refastening" from Catalina Yachts) of the Rudder Bearing Assembly which includes step by step instruction for re-gluing the lower rudder bearing. I plan on re-gluing in the Spring of 2012 when the weather is warm enough for the adhesive to cure. I will be happy to e-mail the drawing if you need it.

richardadlesic@verizon.net

[wcconway]

Diagrams

[Richard Ad]

FYI...... I dropped the rudder, cleaned the lower bearing, used 3M-4200, put the bearing back in place, put the rudder back in place, re-installed the steering cable assembly, auto pilot. All of this took me (with no help) approximately 5 hours. This was the first time doing this project. If I have to do it again I think it would only take me 3 to 3 1/2 hours.

[randj]

Just had R Boat hauled for bottom paint. I have about 1/4" play in the rudder. The boatyard suggested re-packing the rudder post. I have not seen any posts concerning re-packing. Has anyone done this?

R Boat
Hull #193
Richard Massey

[TBOT422]

When we did the sea trial on The Best of Times (Hull 422) last spring, I felt the steering was slightly stiffer than my experience on previous sailboats. When I questioned the previous owner, he stated that he had the rudder bearing repaired in Jan. 2010 (original commissioning was Feb 2007). I was very concerned that the rudder bearing required repair or replacement in a 3-year old boat and assumed that he must have ran it aground at some time. The previous owner gave me a copy of the repair invoice and I called the boat yard to question them. They said there was not evidence of grounding and they simply re-guled the lower rudder bearing.

I still feel the steering is slightly stiffer than I was accustomed to, but I've gotten used to it and don't notice it much anymore. Last weekend I had another sailor aboard and let them at the helm for awhile. My wife asked them if they thought the steering was stiffer than their boat (a Catalina 309), and they said they felt like it was. Apparently the bearing repair is holding up so far. We'll know more when we haul her out for new bottom paint in June or July.

I have no way of knowing, but from the discussions on this board abour the lower rudder bearing repairs, this seems to be a common C350 issue, and my concerns about a previous owner's hard grounding may be unfounded.

By the way the boat yard charged the previous owner 8.5 hours @$85/hour to re-glue the lower rudder bearing. So a do-it-yourself job in 5.5 hours is a job well done.

[reltubp]

Hi all,
I recently had my rudder bearing replaced by a yard who claim it took 20 hrs of labor. Does this seem high to those you who have done this or had a yard do it for you ? On the forum I have seen numbers of bwtween 5 and 10 hrs mentioneds so this is quite a bit out of line with those numbers. Any explanation ?

[Richard Ad]

Hello reltubp: I don't know about a total bearing replacement so I will only speak about my experience. My lower bearing 3M-4200 failed and the lower bearing was loose and the lag bolts dug into the bearing creating slots in the bearing. I went through the previous posted procedure to clean, re-apply 3M-4200, rotate the bearing approx 120 degrees in order to position the slots the lag bolts created away from where the lag bolts now secure the bearing. All seems good but I haven't dove under the boat to inspect. It took me 5 hours with zero helpers. Now that I have experience I feel that I could (with helpers) complete the lower bearing in 3 hours. NOW, regarding the boat service that I use and trust in Annapolis, they said they'd need 10 hours minimum. This was Spring and their busiest time of year and it was only to reapply 3M-4200 to the lower bearing. They also said it's not that critical and wouldn't bother with it. I fixed it because I like my boat to be 'like new". The bearing company will only sell the entire bearing set because they mold the entire set in one manufacturing process. Did you replace the entire bearing set, only re-adhesive the lower bearing, or have it repaired at all? Feel free to contact me if you'd like discuss.

Richard / 410-480-1776 Hull #329