ENGINE NOISE-DAMPER REPLACEMENT?

[RCMURPHY]

My M35B Universal engine, model year 2003, with 950 hours, is making a fair amount of excessive noise at low RPMs. My trusted diesel mechanic believes the problem is the damper plate. He will have to take the engine off its mounts, slide it forward, remove the transmission, and finally get access to the damper. He states he will reassemble everything and then determine if the new damper plate eliminates the excessive noise. If not...then the transmission, will be the next thing he loooks at. I have, by the way, been meticulous in providing preventitive maintence to the engine, and more frequently than that prescribed schedule of maintence.

In looking at these boards no one else appears to have had such damper problems, at least the problem has not been posted. I would like to know if others have experienced such a problem, and if so, did replacement of the damper plate correct the excessive noise problem.

I would appreciate your comments.

[Ray Edwards]

Know this posting is somewhat dated but ----- had an issue with my damper plate (transmission) 2005 model, 2400 hours, with final issue of barely going in gear.
Started out with noise but not to bad, once RPM's increased either in gear or out ran without a problem. Not sure now if it was a damper problem first or transmission issue (had to replace both), real problem was first noticed when a fine "dust" was found in engine compartment (looking at engine, on port side), thought at first belt dust becuase had changed belt few weeks prior, wrong it was dust from damper plate escaping from bell housing.
Transmission problem didn't go slowley, just one day had problem with engaging and that was that !!!!!
Pulling transmission was easier than thought, just disconnected shaft took rear motor mount nuts off, used a small jack and jacked up rear of engine a few inches to level enough to clear shaft coupler and tranmission slid right out, next the damper plate came out (might add most of mine was in a pile of pieces in bottom of bell housing).
Bottom line, of course replaced damper plate and rather than have transmission rebuilt decided "nothing to good for the yacht "Maria" and ordered new one from factory, cost about four hundred $$ more with core exchange but worth piece of mind
Again, not sure if damper plate was problem or orginal transmission was problem but would bet bad damper plate froze / jammed transmission over period of time. I had changed transmission fluid four times pior to problem and didn't see anything indicating problem but like I said issue of engaging in gear happened like NOW but noise from damper plate was more than likely indicator of problem. Might add that when transmission fluild was checked when installing new, had small gold like flexs in in -- not good --
Manual lists maintanance to damper plate every thousand hours, mechanic said ???? if you need to do "maintanance" there is no adjustment you just replace it !!!!!!!!!!!
Ray Edwards C350--293
"Maria"

[RCMURPHY]

Thanx Ray.

Interesting to hear your engine went over 2400 hours before having this problem-in my case I logged just 1000 hours. Also-You are way more clever than I. I had to have a mechanic replace the damper plate-due to my fear of how/where to replace all those bolts, nuts and other parts you would have had to remove. The carbon-like discs had completely disintegrated. The repair cost over $2K-the engine had to be taken off the motor mounts and moved forward in order to remove the transmssion and bell housing, but I also had the belt, thermostat, water pump, radiator cap, coolant, and some hoises replaced.

Thanx for the info...fair winds.
Rich Murphy-Semper Fi

[Triumph]

I now have about 1,000 hrs on engine. Damper plate making loud noise at idle speed in neutral. Once in gear, and more rpms, noise goes away.

Had mechanic replace the damper plate. Problem fixed.

Triumph

[russp]

I have exactly the same problem, loud rattle at idle up to 1400 rpm then smooth, have about 1100 hrs on engine but this started at around 700 and is getting slightly worse. My current solution is not to run the motor below 1400 rpm but that is a nuisance when trying to idle up to a jetty, but not insoluble. Messages in this section give me confidence to replace the damper plate, but in Australia I might have trouble finding a mechanic who knows much about Universals!

Russ Peel
Avalon #150

[Triumph]

It's more of a Herth Transmission mechanic you need, and these transmissions are on a lot of different kinds of boats all over the world. When you order the part, make double sure you get the correct part. The part that almost worked was $250, the correct part was $425. Darn, as usual.

Bill

[JerryRoss]

To compliment other posts about the M35B damper plate, here is my experience. At slightly over 700 engine hours, I discovered black/grey power in the starboard rear area of my engine compartment. I first though it was from the alternator belt but not so. Shortly later I noticed a chattering sound in idle that would decrease when engine rpm increased. I think the clattering had been there for some time but I just did not pay attention to it. Based on other posts, I decided the problem was likely the damper plate. I disconnected the transmission output shaft from the prop shaft, raised the engine rear, removed the transmission, and removed and replaced the damper plate. The damper plate has a non-metallic center which was coming apart with chunks in the bell housing bottom. These chunks were being ground into fine power that was blowing out the timing mark viewing hole in the starboard side of the bell housing. I replaced the damper plate and problem solved. Upon request, I will email a fairly detailed summary with pictures of how I raised the engine rear and removed and replaced the damper plate. I did all the work and the damper plate cost $404.32 at R. B. Grove, Inc. in Pensacola. Below is a description of the pictures.

Picture Comments:
DP01.jpg: New damper plate on left and old on right.
DP02.jpg: New damper plate.
DP03.jpg: Old damper plate.
DP04.jpg: Old damper plate showing chunks removed from bell housing.
DP05.jpg: Part number tag for new damper plate.
DP06.jpg: Port rear engine mount area showing bolt used to raise engine rear.
DP07.jpg: Wood piece used to keep pressure on dripless seal.
DP08.jpg: New damper plate installed in bell housing.
DP09.jpg: Another shot of new damper plate in bell housing.
DP10.jpg: Transmission reinstalled and engine rear still raised.
DP11.jpg: Another shot of transmission output shaft and prop shaft flanges disconnected.

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dp02resize.jpg (71.18 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp03resize.jpg (91.19 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp05resize.jpg (80.62 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp06resize.jpg (165.7 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp07resize.jpg (149.4 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp08resize.jpg (151.3 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp09resize.jpg (166.46 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp10resize.jpg (160.47 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

dp11resize.jpg (152.75 KiB) Viewed 1439 times

[russp]

Hi Jerry,
If you are able to send detailed description of what you needed to do to replace the damper plate would be very grateful, mine has done 1200 hours and rattles a lot at idle, but hasn't started to disintegrate yet (I don't think anyway).

Regards
Russ Peel
russ.peel@gmail.com

[standib]

Jerry,

Please also send me your detailed instructions and photos.
Thanks

Bob Standish
S/V Brigadoon
Catalina 350 Hull #56

[MorningStar]

Jerry,
I would appreciate sending any more details with the photos to my email address, bjdupuy@gmail.com. My damper plate rattles and I plan to start the replacement myself soon.

Thanks and regards,
Barry Dupuy
s/v Morning Star #35

[wolfe10]

Jerry,

Sent you a PM with my e-mail address, but can post it here as well. Thanks for the help.

Brett
350 #180

bawolfe10@hotmail.com

[KenKrawford]

Brett, it would great if you posted the info. here on the board. I'm sure there are others equally interested (or will be in the future).

[wolfe10]

Ken, et al;

Jerry is the one who did the fine job of documenting this.

Brett

[Palmettomoon350]

It appears Palmetto Moon also has this problem and will have to be addressed in July. My question; is this a common problem or an abnormal one that occurrs in random boats? I have counted maybe 10 boats in the Forum with this problem. Are there others that we do not know about? I know the engine is Universal and the transmission Herth but which is the culprit, if any? Is it possible the Damper Plate is made in China?????

Carl Beckmann
S/V Palmetto Moon # 223
Charleston SC

[MorningStar]

I replaceed the damper last month which corrected the problem. The engine has 1100 hours. I purchased the new damper from PYI, the company that distributes the dripless packing. Cost was half the price as universal and looks exactly the same.
Barry Dupuy
s/v Morning Star #35

[Palmettomoon350]

Barry,
If you could be so kind as to provide me a contact person/phone number or the PYI website I would appreciate that very much.

Thanks but still looking for causes!!!

Regards

Carl
Palmetto Moon # 223
Charleston SC

[jking]

Our boat makes a wicked racket for the first minute or so after engine start. I could never figure out why, but it seems like its the start of a damper plate failure as others have mentioned here. Only 250 hours on engine.
J King
#303

[Palmettomoon350]

It's interesting that the powers that be have not answered the basic question: Why is the damper plate causing a problem on "some" engins but not on others? I understand engins/transmissions break down but this is a "several engine/trans" problem but not all engins. I would really like to know why the damper plate is a mechanical problem?
I still need the part number for PYI???

Regards

Carl
Palmetto Moon # 223

[leigh weiss]

To all who have the "transmission rattle!"

I might shed some light on the damper plate issue from my experience.
My engine has the PYI (Engine has under 200 hrs.) type plate installed and a fair amount of rattle noise at low speed after the transmission oil is hot..
I am replacing the damper with a Sachs damper (steel plate with springs) instead of what i think is polyurethane.
The supplier at Marinetransmissions.com suggested using the Sachs because it has three progressive spring rates which should better absorb the torsional variations from the "light weight flywheel" which might be causing gear lash. (The rattle) .
The price for the damper Sachs #1866 061 001 including shipping was under $200.
You might want to give them a call @ 978 887-0001.

Following the great instructions and pix posted, the entire job was completed in about 5 hrs.
If you have any questions I might be able to help.
Next week I will have a chance to try out the new damper with a warmed up transmission
Leigh Weiss Brisa #155

[leigh weiss]

New Damper Plate (Sachs 1866 061 001) is quieter than the R&D 22B4 for my engine and transmission
Motored for an hour and returned to the mooring "quietly". All is well with the world.
"Brisa" #155