Second Bilge Pump

[zman18]

Has anyone added a second bilge pump, if so appreciate any feedback on the installation.
Thanks
John
" Compress Rose" Hull 484

[TBOT422]

This might be a worthwhile project, however the big problem I see is installing a second discharge hose. You would need to find somewhere that you have good access to the inside of the hull to put in a new thru hull and route the discharge hose. I'm not sure where that would be as I don't see much easy access to the inside of the hull anywhere. Then there is the problem of running the hose from that location to somewhere in the bilge. Not an easy task. I suppose you could tee into the existing discharge hose, but that limits you to the 1" line already in place which eliminates the choice of a 3700 gph pump. It also limits how much water you can pump through the 1" line even with 2 pumps, and doesn't provide any redundancy for the problem of an obstruction in the primary discharge line.

Any ideas or suggestions?

[Aussie Mate]

Maybe this is not normal but I have an unused through hull located just behind the transmission. Across from the one used for water intake for the engine. It could be easily accessed by running a hose from the bilge to the rear through the drainage holes on the starboard side of the bilge. The current hose runs through the port side drainage holes. When I replaced my bilge hose that had ruptured, there were no obstructions running the hose aft. Try using a snake to set a leader to pull the hose through.

[R.B.]

If you look in your bilge, there are 2 channels that run aft that you could run the new hose through. The channels run under the engine space and come out by your rudder quadrant. From there you can run the hose up to the side of the hull and drill a new hole for the through hull. Since most of the run for this hose will be horizontal, there will be quite a bit of water in the hose, running back into the bilge after a pump cycle. But your original bilge pump should be able to pick up the excess. I am planning on trying this mod in the fall. I ordered a large capacity pump for this purpose, in case the smaller, original can't keep up. If I get into that situation, I will not be worried about the excess water flowing back into the bilge

[zman18]

Appreciate the feedback. I don't have the extra through hull that Bruce mentioned so it would be a matter of running a new hose under the engine. However in just looking at the limited space it would be tough getting the hose through without it getting hung up. It's too bad there is not a open run with reasonable access. Still thinking about this and open to suggestions.
John
Hull 484

[TBOT422]

Connecting to a thru hull below the water line as Bruce mentioned would defeat the purpose of the bilge pump as it would necessitate having another open sea cock in order for the pump to discharge. If that was the desire, you could simply discharge the second pump into either the head or sink drains or the shower sump drain which already have sea cocks below the water line. Of course, we all know that the sink drain can back up water if heeled over far enough, so that is another reason not to discharge a bilge pump to any of the thru hulls below the water line.

When I get to the boat I want to investigate the channels that Ralph mentioned, and I'm also interested in what progress Ralph makes this fall.

Unfortunately this seems to be a project that may require a lot of thought and planning. Any thoughts or suggestions from the rest of the members on the board would certainly be appreciated.

[R.B.]

The channels may not seem obvious at first. They are the upper sides of the bilge itself. If you have an an electric fish tape, you will see that the tunnels are actually quite large and will go easily aft. There are a few holes drilled into the sides of the tunnels to get you access in the bilge. The hose for the water heater goes through one of the tunnels to get from the hot water manifold to the hot water tank. I won't be at the boat for a few weeks otherwise I would post pictures. I only realized they were there this year after 11 years owning the boat

[TBOT422]

Ralph,

I had some time to check out the boat yesterday and found the 'tunnels' just as you described them. They are more obvious when looking at the bilge area under the head sink, which looks to be a good location for the secondary bilge pump.

Head Bilge.jpg (89.24 KiB) Viewed 7694 times

You might also note that this research resulted in my discovering why our mast mounted TV antenna no longer worked!

I placed a flashlight in the 'tunnel' to confirm where it went going aft, and low and behold it was where the primary bilge pump discharge hose ran.

Bilge Pump discharge.jpg (82.84 KiB) Viewed 7694 times

Apparently it runs without obstruction to the vast open area at the transom where you can see the primary bilge pump discharge and the suction line for the manual bilge pump run. Hopefully there is sufficient space left for a third hose.

What are your thoughts regarding splicing into the existing thru hull discharge versus installing a new thru hull on the port side? I'm leaning toward splicing into the existing discharge rather than put another hole in the boat. It appears to be 1-1/2" all the way. The manual pump has 1-1/2" suction and discharge, and the primary pump has a 1" discharge that is teed into the manual discharge line just ahead of the thru hull.

What are your thoughts regarding redundant power source? Splice into the power to the primary pump or run a new line direct to the batteries? I'm leaning toward a new completely redundant power source straight to the batteries. Fused of course, but not switched other than a float switch. I don't understand why one would put a switch on the panel that allows you to accidentally turn off the bilge pump. I would think the bilge pump would be one thing that should have as few components as possible that could become a point of failure.

Thanks for your input

[SeaBreeze]

John, i added a second pump on a previous boat that had a keel stepped mast and a shaft packing gland that dripped a little bit of water when the shaft turned. So there was often some casual water in my bilge. Rain water down the mast and the gland drip. I decided to stack 2 pumps with seperate float switches and seperate discharge hoses. Lower small capacity pump to handle casual water. Larger capacity pump mounted a few inches above the lower pump to handle greater volume of water if needed. Both were wired through on-off-manual switches. Why not direct to the battery? What if the float switch fails or gets stuck and you need to pump the bilge. I installed a second discharge hose to an overboard through hull fitting above the water line with vented loop. Pumps in real world do not produce rated flow for several reasons. So using one discharge hose for two pumps drastically reduces actual flow vs rated flow. To turn this into a government-like project (expanded scope and inflated budget) I wired a resettable event counter in parallel with the smaller pump so everytime I visited the boat I would know if the casual water pump had run. I wired a loud horn in parallel with the upper pump to sound an alarm should the lower pump not be able to handle a larger than normal amount of water and the high capacity pump starts to run. Adding an above the waterline through hull fitting isn't difficult and in looking at the photos in this string, routing a second discharge hose looks very possible. I would run the hose first to make sure you can successfully route it before buying the pump and accessories. Good luck with the project.
Rick
Sea Breeze

[R.B.]

I am with Rick on NOT using the existing bilge pump hose for the 2nd pump. Given the access to run a new hose (It will be bigger as well as the bigger pump requires it) it should be pretty easy to drill a new thru hull for the new hose. The wiring I haven't figured out yet, only because I haven't found a panel and a location for the panel that I like. If anyone has pictures of an installed 2nd bilge pump panel , please post it.
Thanks

[zman18]

After looking at Gary's pictures I did some further exploring on the boat. It appears some changes were made on my model year (2008 MkII). The hose from the electric and manual pump come under the cabin floor from the main bilge but then run alongside the fuel tank through a tube and exit to the stern. I don't have that nice open space seen in the picture above. Going to have to keep looking but as with most jobs on the boat I don't think this is going to be an easy fix.
John
Compass Rose Hull 484