YET ANOTHER BATTERY QUESTION

[DuncanMcMillan]

Ken (or anyone) , what's the best procedure for measuring the actual liquid level in the battery and where it actually should be relative to the plates?

[KenKrawford]

Duncan I've asked this same question to several battery dealers and can't get a definite answer. Obviously, you don't want the plates exposed. Toward the other extreme, if you notice liquid (ie acid) on top of the battery around the fill holes, you've over filled. This results from the bubbling of electrolyte that occurs during charging and excess fluid will escape from the vent holes. Here's a picture of how to fill a battery but the construction of yours may vary.

[Fat Cat]

The new batteries are in... feels like Christmas on Fat Cat! The drawing supplied by Charles for the battery select switch is anything but clear. In fact, by measuring the bulk charge voltages, my electrician believes the switch was set to "AGM" for wet cell batteries since the wet cells were installed (2006). I've emailed Charles for a definitive answer on where this switch should be and asked them why they don't stamp the back plate near the switch so it's clearly labelled.

[DuncanMcMillan]

Thanks Ken. Very helpful.

[rwbower]

I switched to AGM batteries to avoid the acid mess with the wet Lead Acids. A little longer than the L-A, but still fit easily into battery box. I have a Charles 30 A 12V 5000 series C-Charger that I tried to switch to AGM setting, but could not find a battery type selector switch anywhere on the charger. I opened the inspection plate and found no selector switch, so, I removed the charger from the bulkhead and still found no selector switch anywhere on the charger. I inquired to Charles Ind., but no response. Perhaps my charger was too early (2004) to have a selector switch feature. I would like a solution short of buying a new Charles Charger at ~ $620+. Any suggestions?
rwbower

[TBOT422]

Here's a link to the manual for the Charles 5000 series charger: http://www.charlesindustries.com/marine ... argers.pdf

Page 6 shows the battery type switch location on the 'bottom' of the charger. In our case that means the back side where it's mounted to the wall, so it has to be removed from the wall to get to the switch.

Good Luck

[Fat Cat]

RWBower, we also had questions about the Charles 30 charger and the selector switch installed on our 2004, however, after removing the charger from the bulkhead, did find the switch. Unfortunately, it is not labelled and a diagram in a previous post doesn't make it 100% clear as to which setting is what. Here's the kicker: a reply email from Charles told us that the switch should be set to the battery maunufacturer's charging specifications, that is, certain makes of AGM batteries would want to be set to the wet-cell or gel setting. How confusing is that??

Bob
Fat Cat
#258

[Fat Cat]

Charles 30 battery charger charging specs, as sent to me by Charles:

12vdc: lead-acid: 14.5v in bulk, 13.65v in float
gel: 14.2v in bulk, 13.65v in float
AGM: 14.2v in bulk, 13.4v in float

Bob
Fat Cat
#258

[rwbower]

Well, it looks like there is no clear answer. My battery is a Universal that I bought on line. I inquired about an equalization voltage and they said never equalize, but they didn't say whether to use a wet L-A or AGM setting, but I can't find the selector switch on mine anyway. So, it begins to look not much better than a flip of a coin, which is unsettling. But, I also have a Gel dedicated starter battery isolated by a diode that has diode(0.65 v drop) isolator in the circuit, so it is even more confusing.
rwbower
Sinaloa II
#139

[rwbower]

I am working on my own designed "Davit" to hold my small inflatable dingy. I have also converted to an electric motor to power my dingy. one charge in my 18Ah AGM dry batter lets me put around the harbor for an hour. I'll update you on my home made "Davit" when I finish the project.

rwbower
Sinaloa II
#139

[rwbower]

I HAVE RESEARCH THIS AGM Charge issue A BIT MORE:
Universal recommends a charge voltage of 14.7 v with a charge range of 14.4 to 15 v, and a float voltage of 13.4v. This float v is important if you leave your boat with charger on in the off season. The float v will leave your battery happy.
I also read that it may be at least undesirable and maybe dangerous to overcharge AGM batteries, because, they tend to heat if overcharged and that may cause components to expand. And AGM batteries are very tightly packed, heat and thus expansion may cause the batteries to crack, or even worse explode and/or catch fire. Thus, I would tend to only charge within the specified limits, perhaps near the middle of the range. Thus, 14.7 v. Therefore, considering the Charles specs:
14.5 v Wet lead Acid
14.2 v Gel
14.2 v AGM
However, the manufacturer of this Universal battery recommends 14.5 v . (The Wet Acid are the closet to the value of 14.7 v .
Again, there seams to be some confusion, and maybe I wish i had not bothered to remove my Charles Charger from the bulkhead. Next, I will see if I want to bother reprograming my Balmar MC-612 voltage regulator,where it is recommended for Prog -4 for AGM with a charge voltage of 14.38 or Prog-5 (spiral Wound AGM) which has a charge voltage of 14.6 v, oh my goodness, that is almost identical to Prog-2 which is for flooded Lead-Acid. I feel that this is now going in circles. I am a physicist, so it all leaves me bewildered.

rwbower
Sinaloa II
#139

[rwbower]

excuse a few of the typos in my recent posts. I believe they are still readable, but some were written on my ipad and iphone and you may recognize it is difficult to compose things without minor typos from these devices, so please forgive the typos. I also can't figure out how my Davit posts got mixed into this forum. I will look into how to move these out of this forum and put them in the correct forum.

rwbower
Sinaloa II
#139

[pdenoncourt]

RWBower: I have an early model Charles charger (2003), and it, like yours, has no switch anywhere. Two years ago I replaced my charger with a Xantrex 60 amp (it has an equalization setting, and I wanted that for my flooded lead-acid batteries). After seeing your post, I took my old Charles Charger off the shelf where I am storing it, and looked carefully on every external surface for the switch - it is not there! Then I disassembled the unit, and found a single accommodation to gel cells, printed on the circuit board. Apparently you are to remove a jumper from R31 if you have gel cells. Nothing about what effect on voltage this will have. Bottom line: if you want to be sure you are correctly charging your AGMs, you should change out that old Charles Charger, either for a newer model or a different brand. It is very important for the life of AGMs to use the correct charging regime.

[saileagleswings]

Check with Charles; they may add a switch for AGM batteries to the back of your old charger if you send it back to them.

Also, West Marine sells AGM batteries that may be charged using a wet cell voltage. I have AGM 4Ds with a Mastervolt 40 amp charger (AGM Setting), solar panels (AGM setting) and the standard alternator. My first set of AGMs lasted 6 or 7 years.

[rwbower]

Thanks for the additional input. Notice that the Universal AGM batteries that I purchased also Recomend a charge voltage of 14.5 volts which is the specified value quoted by Charles ind. for the flooded L-A battery and my batteries only cost $312 a piece on aline. This my first battery change I have made since I purchased my boat new in 2004, so I have had a good battery experience.
rwbower
Sinaloa II
#139

[russp]

Just keep in mind one of the previous posts, about float voltage rather than charge voltage. If you charge and then disconnect, no problem, but if you charge and leave on float you need to have a low float voltage for AGMs. I destroyed $2000 worth of AGMs by not checking the float voltage on my solar panels, couldn't work out why they died after only about 3 years, was due to trickle charge from solar but over 14V as it only had a wet cell setting.
I now disconnect solar when I am not on board and leave batteries full, but not on charge.

Russ Peel
Avalon #150