Not running due to fuel

[C350ia]

Approx 2 weeks ago, while motoring in calm seas, the engine quit. Was running fine and then seemed to run out of gas and stopped. After two attempts, managed to get it running and leaving throttle at 2400, made it back to dock in approx. 30 minutes. That whole time engine ran fine, but like I said, I set the throttle at 2400 and didn't touch it until approaching dock.

While trying to trouble shoot, I pulled the main fuel intake from the fuel tank to check for debris/obstructions. All clean. I checked the fuel/water separator and drained off just a very little bit of gunk. I changed the engine mounted fuel filter as well as the filter in the water separated. All looked fine. After priming the water separator I made several attempts, but engine would not start. So I cracked the fuel lines to the injectors to try and bleed the system of air. No fuel came out of the injector lines. So I'm thinking I either I got a bad injector pump, bad lift fuel pump, or there is a clog somewhere between the water separator and the injector pump.

It's a 2004 Universal M35. Suggestions on how to proceed? Please respond to dbrown@ewa.com
Dave Brown' Catalina 350 #246

[jking]

Make sure you check the fuel vent/air intake.
Jan #303

[wolfe10]

1. Assume you have checked and that you do have diesel in the tank.

2. Check for air in the primary fuel filter. It should be totally full of fuel. If not, you have a problem with the filter or line from tank to primary filter or of course no diesel. Even a clog should not allow air in-- it would just not allow fuel in.

3.. Locate the electric fuel pump (aft cabin top panel over the engine). It likely has a short pigtail then a connector. This is on the 12 VDC positive side. Separate the connection and put the pump side on the large lug of the glow plug relay that is right there. You will know you have the correct large lug if the pump starts.

4. If pump starts and runs rapidly, there is air in the system. Loosen the bleed bolt on the top of the on-engine fuel filter (put something under the filter to catch the diesel) and again put the pump positive feed on the glow plug relay lug to power it. Only diesel with no bubbles should come out. If bubbles, continue to run the pump until no bubbles.

Let us know what you find.

Brett

[digitalvillager]

Dave-
Had a similar experience. Check the lift pump first as this is the easiest diagnoses. Turn the ignition key to the "on" position then go below and listen for a "clicking" sound at the rear top side of the engine. If you hear a rapid clicking, it should slow to once or twice a second as it purges the fuel system. If you hear no clicking, then you have a bad lift pump or connection. The lift pump can be replaced at NAPA. I did it on July 4 a couple of years ago.
-Charlie

[R.B.]

As mentioned above, check the electric fuel pump. Similar thing happened to me too, while cruising. Intermittent running, almost like it was overheating/getting stuck and shutting down for awhile. Replaced it and haven't had any problems since. Cheap and easy to replace.

[KenKrawford]

A comment about bleeding - the M35B is self-bleeding so there is no need to crack the fuel lines to purge air. If you run the pump for a few minutes, all the air should be out of the system and the excess fuel returned to the tank.

[dpaulo]

Same experience for me in my 2003, Hull#3. Agree, be first suspicious of the fuel pump. It's an easy fix, even for a non-mechanic. dan

[Richard Ad]

Similar situation with my 2005. Every now and then it sounded like the engine was starving for fuel. The wire going to my fuel pump had a disconnection and the wire insulation held the wires together enough to give me an intermittent connection. I tested the wire with a volt meter for an Ohm reading. Sure enough there was a disconnect. I replaced the wire and it seems to be good now.

Regarding fuel flow; I just changed out the Racor and primary fuel filters. It was previously mentioned that you should fill the filter with fuel prior to installation which is a good idea but can be messy. Somewhere I read that the fuel system on our boat is self-priming. I removed the primary filter and of course spilled fuel in the bilge, replaced new filter without filling with fuel. Cleaned up my mess. Started the engine. It ran for 30 seconds then the engine died. Cranked it for 10-15 seconds and it started. Ran it for 20 minutes. Shut it down. Let it sit. Started again nicely. Shut it down. Let it sit for a couple of hours. Started it again.

[JohnForr]

My fuel lift pump does not click. My tank was just about empty this week and the engine would not start. I added diesel to the tank and the engine started.
Since I can't hear the pump clicking, should I replace the pump now? Even if the engine will now start.
On page 44 of the parts manual it says 24v after the pump. However, a facet 476459e appears to be 12 v. Does it matter?

[digitalvillager]

The added fuel could have pushed past the lift pump and down to the mechanical fuel pump and possibly allowed the engine to start and idle after much cranking. The problem may arise when you pull away from the dock and put the power to it. You then may experience what seems like starving which means the lift pump is not doing its job. If you can safely get 12 volts to the lift pump to test it, you should hear clicking or at least feel a vibration. My guess is your lift pump is non-operational. You can replace it at NAPA auto parts with either of two pumps they offer for the same gpm on the old lift pump.

[wolfe10]

There is no 24V pump. It IS 12 VDC. And, you can check for 12 VDC at the pump with ignition on/engine running.

If 12 VDC at the connections at the pump, replace the pump.

[bibbjs]

My fuel lift pump does not click. My tank was just about empty this week and the engine would not start. I added diesel to the tank and the engine started.
Since I can't hear the pump clicking, should I replace the pump now? Even if the engine will now start.
On page 44 of the parts manual it says 24v after the pump. However, a facet 476459e appears to be 12 v. Does it matter?

Unless the engine is running, the electric lift pump is not operating. If you think you need to bleed fuel and push an air bubble past the mechanical pump, turn the key on the helm to the pre-glow position and hold for about 10 seconds. That activates the lift pump and pushes fuel to the mechanical pump. You may need to do this a few times depending on how much air you have to purge, but be careful not to hold the glow plugs for too long.

If you are just concerned about the pump working, have someone else hold the key in pre-glow while you go down and listen for the pump. It is quieter when there is no fuel in it, but still should be able to be heard.

Good luck!
J.

[TBOT422]

John,

Answering another post, the little square box on the side of the pre-heat solenoid is a 10A circuit breaker in the circuit to the fuel lift pump when the switch is in the pre-heat position. If it (or the pre-heat solenoid) is bad then the fuel lift pump may not work with the switch in the pre-heat position. There is a second circuit thru the oil pressure switch to operate the fuel lift pump when the engine is running. When the engine is running you likely can not hear the fuel lift pump. Refer to the wiring diagram on page 96 of the M35B Service Manual.

As mentioned above, you can check the fuel lift pump by jumping 12 V directly to it and verify that it works when the engine is not running. I suspect you have a problem with either the pre-heat solenoid or the 10A circuit breaker. I have replaced both on our boat.

[wolfe10]

At least on ours, you can unplug the 12 VDC positive connection (it is a quick connect) and touch it to the large lug of the glow plug solenoid (the one that is 12 VDC positive all the time) to test it.

BTW, that is how I prime the fuel system after a filter change.

[JohnForr]

Thanks for all your replies and messages. Had the Admiral turn the key while I listened and I heard nothing. So, I am going to try NAPA for a pump and if they don't have one I am going to order one online from Aircraft Supply.

I am also going to try to figure out how to electrify the fuel lift pump without turning they key since I am frequently on the boat myself. (I used to have a 1982 Catalina 27 with an 11hp diesel that I bought new that I could bleed the fuel from down below. That was pretty useful.)

I forgot to post the picture so I am trying again.

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[C350ia]

Similar issue (engine intermittent and occasional fuel supply problem) but different source of the problem. On our 2006, there is a bunch of tape over a 'Y' electrical connection beside the fuel pump. One of the arms of the Y had broken off but the black electrical tape hid the problem and sometimes allowed the pump to run. If the tank was above half full, the mechanical pump could pull in fuel but with a lower level in the tank or rough seas, the engine would be starved of fuel. Repalcing the Y connector solved the problem.

[russp]

And just putting in my 2c worth! I had a problem after sailing hard on a port tack with a less then half full tank. The lift leg to the lift pump had been draining back into the tank once the diptube came out of the fuel. Then when I tried starting I only gave a cursory glow plug hold as the engine was warm, and it just wouldn't start and I was hitting the flooding limit on the aqualift.

After much sole searching and anguish someone on the forum pointed out that the lift pump only works with the glow plug and all I had to do was hold that supply in for longer and the pump would self prime and all would be well. And it was!

[JohnForr]

I had a similar problem with the break in the wire under the electrical tape last summer when motoring into Pelican Bay. The motor stopped until I reconnected the wires. I am slowly going around an fixing the twisted and taped connections. I am also trying to get the wiring size and color back to the specifications.

[JohnForr]

Thanks for all your help. The hopefully final outcome. I had a bad wire leading to the fuel lift pump. The wire looked fine, but somehow it must have been broken under the insulation. Someone had spliced in a red wire for some reason. After cutting out That wire and putting on a new connector I got a strong chatter sound from the pump. We had to bleed the air out even though it is supposed to be self priming.
I had bought a preheat Solenoid, 10 amp circuit breaker, resister and low oil pressure switch. I had also bought a pump from aircraft supply for about $80.00. That pump did not come with the elbows for connecting to the 5/16" internal diameter fuel lines. The aircraft supply pump comes filed with what smells like mineral oil. So I went to NAPA and bought the elbows for about $4.00. The original pump and all other parts Are working so I have a bunch of spares.
FYI Only and thanks